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Old 09-12-2007, 08:25 PM   #1
Default Soy Milk: Somebody Convince Me!!
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Since accumulating a few coupons for soy milk prodcts, I've been researching about it and now realize the many health benefits that it offers. And I'm all for trying out healthier foods, and cutting calories where I can, but what's holding me back is: First of all...whether or not it TASTES good!!...And second of all...would I be wasting my money??

I hear the "regular" milk has a nutty flavor, which sounds kind of nice, but that some brands are also available in chocolate, vanilla, and a few other flavors.

OF COURSE I would be using a coupon for this purchase , and right now I have both 50 and/or 55 cents off coupons for the following brands:

Organic Valley
Horizon Organic
Silk
8th Continent

Do any of you drink soy milk? If so, which brand?
And why do you like it? Was it hard for you to get used to?

TIA!!
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Old 09-12-2007, 08:49 PM   #2
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Hmmm I know there are lots of people who drink soy because they have to (due to allergies) or because they are vegetarian etc... we actually have some soy in the house for our milk-allergic son, but mostly he drinks rice milk. Anyway, I don't want to offend any who drink it by saying this, but the health benefits of soy have been heavily refuted recently.

If you would like to research this opinion of soy before buying it, you can visit www.mercola.com We have no affiliation to this site, it's just been a great source of all sorts of health-related stuff for us. When you get to the site, there is search engine just for his site and you can look up practically any health-related issue. There is tons of information on there about soy! We hesitate to drink or eat too much after reading extensively about it. We eat moderate amounts, no more.

I have many vegetarian friends and we never share our personal views/opinions about soy because we wouldn't want to "critique" their choice (soy), but since you seem to really be inquiring, I thought I would offer that up.
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Old 09-12-2007, 09:32 PM   #3
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I usually buy silk soy milk in the vanilla flavor for my dd. But I have also bought regular and chocolate before and they were both okay also. I've also bought 8th continent and horizon although less frequently. They were both okay too I think. My dd just like the vanilla the best because she really doesn't care for the flavor or any regular milk...soy or cow. But since she'll drink the vanilla soy milk and we have a very strong family history of osteoporosis, I'll pay extra for the soy milk. Give it a try. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
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Old 09-12-2007, 10:40 PM   #4
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I haven't checked out the site you referred me to yet, kellytime...but thanks for posting it!!

Like I said above, I've heard that it tastes kind of "nutty"...and I suppose I could deal with that.

I'll check more into it!

Thanks, ladies!
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Old 09-13-2007, 05:50 AM   #5
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I do not care for soy milk, I find all the sugar they put in it to make it palatable is way too sweet for me. Ds does not care for it either. Then if I have the unsweetened I don't like the taste at all.

I am limiting my soy products. For one thing, unless it's organic, soy is super processed and a highly pesticide sprayed product. (had to edit to add even if it is organic it is still highly processed) I read somewhere the soy of today is nothing like the soy of years back - the health benefits not being at all what they used to be. I also can't ignore the 'hinted at' links between soy and cancer - however I'm super sensitive in this area so for most people it won't be a major concern. However, my mom consumed a great deal of soy and she Did die of brain cancer (one of the claims of the non-soy advocates). So it is a little too close to home for me.

Me, I like my tofu on occasion but make sure it's organic and I do limit it. I'd do your research first.
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Old 09-13-2007, 06:32 AM   #6
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I like to drink soy milk and usually buy silk or 8th continent. I prefer the original it reminds me of melted icecream. I have been buying the light though. Fewer calories/fat. It isn't as thick, but tastes the same. I'm sure it is an aquired taste. If you know anyone that drinks it, I would try thiers first, instead of spending your money and not liking it one bit. It is quite pricey you know.
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Old 09-13-2007, 07:56 AM   #7
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I love it but I do find the flavored ones too sweet. I generally by the low fat or light ones (under 100 calories a cup) and in the original flavour.

I like

Blue Menu (President's Choice) - Original or
Soy Good Omega 3 - low fat.
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Old 09-13-2007, 09:29 AM   #8
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I don't like the taste of milk, but I bought Silk for the kids. The vanilla silk to me actually tasted good. It was sweet tasting, so you'd have to like sweet stuff I guess The chocolate light silk was also good, to me. DS1 drinks them both and likes them. DS2 hates both. So I bought him Almond Breeze, chocolate flavor. He liked it better than the soy milk, but still doesn't like it as much as cow milk. Both DS like the Horizon milk the best. The cost of all kinds of milk is so high, I've been training them to drink more water.
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Old 09-14-2007, 02:34 PM   #9
Default An interesting article...
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My husband & I switched from skim milk to soy approx. 1 month ago. It was an easy transition for us. We would buy the wal-mart brand vanilla or original flavored. Taste wise - they were both pretty good. Just last week, a good friend sent the below article to me and we just switched to rice milk this week. It is definately an interesting article to say the least.

***************************
Soy Alert
by: Debi Pearl

This past month a dear friend of mine called with the disturbing news that she had estrogen receptive breast cancer. She asked, “What do you know that could help me?” I knew nothing, so I got busy on the web trying to find everything I could on the subject.

I found more than I could have imagined. In the course of my research, I discovered that I had been swallowing a lot of propaganda. If you say something loud enough, often enough, and convincingly enough you can make anyone believe anything you say. The commercial side of the health food industry in America has vigorously promoted soy products and additives, turning a deaf ear to research that should throw up red flags. While other countries have acknowledged the potential danger and taken steps to warn their citizenry, powerful, rich concerns in this country have not admitted the problem.

Soybeans! Healthy, right? Full of vitamins? Full of protein? Yes, everyone knows that. Not according to new research. It is common knowledge that soybeans are loaded with plant compounds that mimic estrogen, a female hormone. Many post menopausal women use soy products to help control hot flashes and other problems caused by hormonal imbalances. And soy is very effective in supplying the hormones needed! Think about it. If soy products supply sufficient hormones to balance out older women, what are they doing to newborn babies fed soy formula? What is this female hormone doing to men who have a constant diet of tofu and soy milk? What about younger women who already have a full supply of estrogen; how does a diet of estrogen rich soy affect them? Research is now strongly pointing to some very disturbing facts. I have summarized many studies and reports and have tried to give a brief outline of the increasing volume of research now being done.

Some studies on the effects of soy products on humans have been in progress 40 years. They are now examining the brain tissue of the deceased. There are many recent studies done on animals. They noticed that birds fed soy developed their adult plumage at 2 months instead of the normal 18 months. At first this was a real plus because the young chicks could be marketed better with their full adult color. Then they noticed that the early maturing, soy-fed birds aged prematurely and died young. This caused much consternation among bird handlers, for they also noticed a great increase in growth disorders, thyroid problems, infertility, and tumor growth.

This was a wake-up call. People were asking, “If soy does this to birds, what is it doing to us?” National health agencies and physician associations of some countries have warned their populace to exercise caution in using soy based infant formulas. In the U. S. two of the Federal Drug Administration’s own researchers, Daniel Doerge and Daniel Sheehan, have stepped forward to protest their own agency’s allowance of health claim labeling regarding the effects of soy protein on coronary health. In a letter to the FDA, they cite their deep disturbance over potential risk to the public by the FDA’s failure to require that the same safeguards be put in place for soy use as for estrogenic (prescribed hormone substances) and goitrogenic drugs (thyroid medication), i.e., that people be informed of the risks and be under a physician’s care while using it.

Our Babies

Preliminary studies are indicating that children given soy formula go through puberty much earlier than children who were not fed soy products. Why? Because the phytoestrogens/ isoflavones in soy act like a hormone in the body, causing the infant to have hormones like the adult body. A 1994 study done in New Zealand revealed that, depending on age, potency of the product, and feeding methods, infants on soy formula might be consuming the equivalent of up to 10 contraceptive pills a day. By exposing your baby to such large amounts of hormonal-like substance, you are risking permanent endocrine system damage (pituitary gland, pineal gland, hypothalamus, thyroid, thymus gland, pancreas, ovary, testis, adrenal glands). Phytoestrogens (substance in soy) are now strongly implicated, through research, in thyroid disorders, behavioral and developmental disorders and cancer. Thyroid problems are now in epidemic proportions. Theodore Kay of the Kyoto University Faculty of Medicine noted in 1988 that “thyroid enlargement in rats and humans, especially children and women, fed with soybeans has been known for half a century.” Recent research leaves little doubt that dietary isoflavones in soy have a profound effect on thyroid function in humans. If you were fed a soy formula or soy products and suffer from a thyroid disorder, contact www.soyonline-service.co.nz/thyroid.htm for help.

Little Boys

“Early puberty (caused by consuming soy products) may increase a boy’s chances of developing testicular cancer later in life, because it means longer exposure to sex hormones,” said University of North Carolina researcher Marcia Herman-Giddens. Congenital abnormalities of male genital tracts are also increasing. Recent studies found a higher incidence of birth defects in male offspring of vegetarian, soy-consuming mothers.

The hormone issue is not the only concern. Research now in progress strongly ties aggressive behavioral problems in children to soy. Soy formula has manganese levels that are 50 times higher than the level found in mother’s breast milk. Research is now showing that high levels of manganese found in soy beverages may be neurotoxic to babies, causing brain damage. These studies suggest a correlation to the dramatic increase in ADHD and violent behavior seen in adolescents today. The website: www.insightmag.com/archive/200106252.shtml reviews a study of unusually high manganese levels found in the hair of hyperactive children and youths convicted of felony crimes. Manganese is a trace metal that is essential for life, but when it is on overload it becomes “manganese-toxicity syndrome.” If I had a child who was a soy child and showed signs of aggressive behavior, I would study oral chelation to see if the manganese levels could be removed naturally.

Allergies are a growing concern. Soy is one of the most allergenic foods in modern diets. It is reported in several research reports to contain at least 30 allergenic proteins. Many of our prepared foods from MSG to crackers and cookies, to frozen fish sticks, and TV dinners, to drinks and most everything in between contain soy. Many soy products are listed as natural ingredients or natural flavorings. Health authorities in other countries are taking products off the markets until they are clearly labeled due to the wide spread allergic reactions to soy. Does your child have asthma? If so, then it is time for you to do your own homework and find out what can be done to clean up your family’s diet.

Little Girls

We regularly get letters from parents that are shocked and horrified to have discovered that their babies, as young as 18 months, are, without doubt, masturbating. It is a shocking but growing phenomenon. Some of the problems are associated with small children clutching vibrating toys, but not in all cases. Yet, there must be a predisposing prompted by hormones. Could it be caused by the hormone element in soy formula? It is becoming clear that our little girls’ hormonal levels are being elevated at a very young age by the health food we eat! Soy-formula provides a hormone level at least 240 times higher than breast milk.

In 1982 pediatric endocrinologists reported that their studies indicated an increase in the incidence of breast development in girls younger than eight years of age. In the first study of 130 little girls, 68% of them had the onset of thelarche (breast development) before they were 18 months old! Investigators found a positive statistical association between thelarche and the consumption of soy formulas (affecting 22 girls), various meat products (affecting 10 girls) and the mother’s history of ovarian cysts (affecting 16 girls). For years, health food gurus have been blaming hormone fed chickens (chickens fed soy) for our early puberty problems, but they remained silent about the hormones we have been eating in the vast number of soy products!

Little girls that go through puberty early face a greater lifetime risk of breast cancer and early ovarian cysts, which is a factor in ovarian cancer and of developing autoimmune thyroid disease (ATD).

Younger Women

Over the years I have known women of childbearing age who guarded their diets, were in excellent health, did not have a family history of breast cancer, and yet came down with breast cancer and died. Why? What was the common factor in these women? You will be shocked to learn that phyto-estrogen compounds found in soy may actually increase the risk of breast cancer. Dr. Claude Hughes, director of the Women’s Health Center at Cedar-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles said of chemicals found in soy, “It can speed up divisions of those cells that are already cancer cells that depend on estrogen for their growth.”

Chanfeng Wang and Mindy S. Kurzer, who wrote Phytoestrogen Concentration Determines Effects of DNA Synthesis in Human Breast Cancer Cells say, “Our data suggests the possibility that, at typical concentrations in humans, phytoestrogens and flavonoids and lignans may stimulate, rather than inhibit, growth of estrogen-dependant tumors.”

It is important to understand that it is not uncommon for hormonally active agents to act as both estrogens and anti-estrogens, to stimulate or inhibit the growth of certain types of cells, such as those found in the human breast. The difference lies in doses and life stages. It is a double-edged sword. Risks may greatly outweigh the benefits. Research strongly suggests that younger women need to use soy products with care and not upset the natural estrogen levels with an overload from an outside source.

Two glasses of soy milk a day, over the course of a month, contains enough of the chemical to change the timing of a woman’s menstrual cycle. Many women of child-bearing age are having terrible mood swings, depression, and they experience monthly PMS. Could these women be playing havoc with their hormones by what they are eating? We already know that women on birth-control pills are known to have more volatile emotions due to the hormonal upset. Just 100 gm of any soy product has the estrogenic content of a contraceptive pill.

And OUR MEN? A Half Helping of a Man?

What are phytoestrogens doing to the men? Researcher, W. David Kubiak reports that “...because female hormones or estrogen given to men in small quantities can quickly overwhelm androgen activity, and soy produces estrogen molecules in biologically significant amounts, it might be inferred that a steady diet of miso, tofu, soy sauce, and so on might not be best for leadership trainees or aspiring Lotharios (lovers).”

Researchers believe that the trend toward lower male fertility may be due to environmental estrogens, including the soy phytoestrogens. There is strong evidence that soy phytoestrogens inhibit an enzyme which is required for the synthesis of testosterone and the development of the CNS-gonadal axis. Much research is now being done to determine the effects of soy on male animals (even male insects) of all sorts. Research with animals and insects from the grasshopper to the cheetah, are showing that soy affects males by making them less confident, less aggressive, indecisive, show less sexual interest, lower sperm count and in some studies less everything male. Research on humans is slow (years), but the short-term studies on men are showing the information obtained through animal life spans correlate with what is happening in human research. A Half Helping of Man? Research sure looks that way. I am sorry for all the soy products I tried to shove down my husband’s and sons’ throats and thankful they were ‘male-stubborn’ and refused my “health food.”

Old, Old, Old Men and getting older with each serving of tofu eaten

The longest study on soy products began in Hawaii in 1965 with 8,006 Japanese-American men. It questioned the men about 27 foods and drinks. Over the years the men were monitored, questioned, and studied. The study shows a significant statistical relationship between two or more servings of tofu a week and “accelerated brain aging” and even an association with Alzheimer’s disease, says Dr. Lon White, who has been studying diseases and aging in this Honolulu Heart Program. White said the scientists found “a significant link between tofu consumption during midlife and loss of mental ability and even loss of brain weight.” Tofu was the only consistent link among the men. “The test results were about equivalent to what they would have been if they were five years older and the guys who ate none, their test scores were as though they were five years younger.” Said White. The brains of 300 men who died were examined in a unique autopsy study conducted as part of the Honolulu aging project. White reports, “But what I did see was the simple weight of the brain was lower. Shrinkage occurs naturally with age, but atrophy progressed more rapidly in those men who had consumed more tofu.”

At the conference where White presented his findings, Finnish scientist Herman Adlercreutz, who led the scientific explosion of interest in his studies on soy 20 years ago, said of soy and it components, “I am myself frightened a little bit by all this. There is so much we don’t know.”

Lon White, who has been a researcher in this field for many years said, “The bottom line is these are not nutrients. They are drugs. They will have some benefits and some negative things.”

Summary

In my study I noticed several important factors. Those who are speaking out against soy products, use extensive data and research reports. They also do not have monetary gain as a motive for putting out the information.

On the other hand, those promoting soy show an obvious lack of scientific study and research. Information promoting soy products often refers back to the Asian people’s dietary habits and their health records. Soy advocates also do not share critical information about the conditions in which the soy plant is grown, which can greatly change the chemical structure of the plant, causing the soy plant to have antiestrogenic effects, rather than estrogenic effects. Stress, fungus, and other environmental and growth conditions can change the types and amounts of phytochemicals responsible for soy’s touted health benefits or risks.

The way the Asians use soy is also never mentioned. The vast majority of soy eaten in Asian countries is used in combination with protein foods, such as pork, fish, milk or eggs. The animal proteins greatly change the chemical structure of the food and how it is digested. Much of the soy in Asian countries is also highly fermented (using fungus), the process changing the hormone-like properties. In the literature I read that told how healthy the Asian people are because they ate soy did not mention that research is finding that Alzheimer’s is higher in Asian people than any other group in the world. As I studied soy’s health benefits, it would have helped if the soy industry would have addressed some of the findings of the research that has been done and is now being done that so clearly points to some serious health threats, but I could find no serious rebuffs. Many people would lose huge fortunes if this information began to affect the health food markets.

Conclusion

I have read for days, even weeks. My neck is stiff from sitting in one spot researching. There are thousands of pages on soy, stating that it is wonderful, and thousands of pages saying how terrible it is. After all I have read, it is clear that money is the deciding factor, not health. Soy is a drug, like many herbs. It is too powerful of a drug to use freely as a food. I visited a health food store yesterday. There was aisle after aisle and shelf after shelf of ready-made, packaged, long lasting, processed, soy health food. There were soy based vitamins, medicines, creams, lotions, rubs, green drinks, baby food, cereal, crackers, milk, soup, cookies, meat substitute, noodles, hot drinks, sauces, nut substitute, chips, candy bars, and anything else a person eats. While I stood there looking around, I felt like I had been a big fool to have thought that all that stuff was healthy. When men try to improve on what God gave, it should be questioned. Cereal should be grains; milk should be the way it was in the Promised Land; meat should be as it was when Jesus fed the multitude, or when Abraham fed the angels of God, and vegetables should be garden fresh.

Isaiah 7:15 — Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good. (prophecy of Jesus and what he would eat and why)

II Samuel 17:29 — And honey, and butter, and sheep, and cheese of kine, for David, and for the people that were with him, to eat: for they said, The people is hungry, and weary, and thirsty, in the wilderness. (God’s anointed man and his army are fed)

Isaiah 7:22—And it shall come to pass, for the abundance of milk that they shall give he shall eat butter: for butter and honey shall every one eat that is left in the land. (noted because it was a blessing from God)

Life is learning, and learning is expending an effort to know the truth. I have given you just a tiny bit of information. Chances are if you buy any prepared foods, you are eating soy. If your child was raised on soy formula, you need to do research. If your child has unusual behavioral problems, you need to study this through. If your child has asthma or allergic health issues, then you need to get to work and find out if this concerns you. If you have thyroid problems or breast tumors or cancer, this might help you find an answer to good health. If your husband lacks leadership and male dominance, but you seem to have a strong assertive drive, then stop eating soy and do some research. If you have stomach ulcers or lack digestive enzymes, stop eating soy. If you have been sucked into the health food craze like so many of us, you need to do some major homework. Don’t ask me. I won’t respond to inquiries. It is in your hands now. It is for you to find out for yourself and make your own decisions. We are including a starting point of several websites.

If you don’t have a computer with the Internet connections, go to your local library with the websites listed here and give them to the librarian, asking her to help you find the information and print it out. Most public libraries will assist you, and charge a minimal fee for any copies of web pages.

Websites for further information

Welcome to Soy Online Service - search this site thoroughly

www.insightmag.com/archive/200106252.shtml

www.cdc.gov/epo/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mrk121

Orcon Internet - Home

abcnews.go.com/onair/2020/2020_000609_soy_feature.html

http://www.mercola.com/2001/sep/22/s...ein_policy.htm



To purchase the book The Whole Soy Story, visit Bulk Herb Store - Herbs, herbal books, remedies, and articles.
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Old 09-14-2007, 03:38 PM   #10
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Seedshakers: Thanks for that article. I'm going to copy/paste it to Word and read the whole thing later.

I agree that there are some health risks to soy. I worry about the hormone problem, especially with my DD. We do not drink soy milk, but we do sometimes eat edemame. My brother would not drink milk, because he didn't like it, but he would drink soy or rice milk, so we ended up switching him to rice milk...again because of the health risks.

That said, here is an interesting tidbit of info a friend of mine told me. IF you are a soy milk drinker and like soy latte's, have you ever noticed how Starbuck's makes a WAY better soy latte than anywhere else? Know why? Because Silk makes a special soy milk just for Starbuck's, which has more sugar and more fat in it than the kind Silk sells at the store. I thought that was interesting. I found a link from Starbuck's website. It doesn't say that it has the added fat or sugar, but it does state that it is made especially for them.

Silk & Starbucks
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