This is a spinoff from the question about what salary defines middle class. I think what it really turns around is, what salary level you set middle class at is: What do you expect "middle class" to be able to do, financially?

What size house and where? (3000 square feet in a nice suburb for a family of 4? 1200 square feet?) Is middle class putting food on the table, or is it being able to eat out whenever you want? Is middle class being able to send your kids to college, or just making sure they have clothes to wear and food to eat while growing up, or is it being able to send them to whatever college they want, no matter how much it costs, and then med school afterward? Or is one goal lower middle class, another middle class, another upper middle class? What you think you should be able to do obviously determines how much money you think is enough to make you comfortably middle class. The person I know who said $100k was barely enough to get by has an enormous house that is one of the most beautiful I have ever seen, and also just threw a $20k wedding for the eldest daughter, whom they are putting through med school. The person who said $50k was upper middle class has no children and usually bikes to work. (But she gets expensive bikes if she wants to and goes out to eat frequently.)

What is your vision of what you should be able to do if you are middle class?

To me middle class is being able to meet all our needs with no worries, some of our wants and being able to pay for our child to go to college (bachelors). Also to be able to have a decent savings in place to afford any emergencies without having to grab the credit cards. To be middle class I don't think the size of the home is an issue, just that you can comfortably afford to own the home of your choice whether that is a manufactured one on plenty of land or a larger sq. footage one in a subdivision.

Good answer!!!!! ITA!

For me middle class is:

~ Housing: moderate house, in the suburbs, for the area where I live. It isn't in the best neighborhood but it isn't in the worst, either. It might be one of the cheaper homes in the better neighborhood, though. I probably own one home with a mortgage but might have a very low cost vacation home somewhere (like an RV that I park on the some-day retirement land).

~ Income: moderate for the area where I live. My spouse probably has a mid-level white collar job, while I may work part-time or have a fexible, lower level job while also being primary caregiver for the kids.

~ School: the kids go to the very good local public school or we scrimp to put them in a moderately priced private school. The kids will go to college with tuition covered by a combination of sources: parental savings, gifts from grandparents, scholarships, grants, loans and the kid working part-time. My kids may have to attend community college for the first two years to save money and they won't be able to attend any college of their choice. They'll probably attend a state college / university and might have to live at home while doing it.

~ Entertainment: we go out to dinner for special occasions. Hubby and I go out to dinner or some other distraction monthly for a little 'adult time'. The kids are allowed to explore various extra-curricular activities like piano lessons and a sport activity. We probably have a moderately priced membership somewhere for a summer activity such as passes to the local water park or a summer pass to a swim club. We go on a vacation at least once a year to visit relatives and maybe take a short side trip as a distraction. We might select a cheaper summer activity in order to pay for ski passes in the winter.

~ Charity: we give to our local church although we struggle to donate a full 10% of our gross income. We give in other ways when we can by volunteering our time and giving to charity drives "for the poor" and the food bank. We don't typically attend large fundraising events (such as $1000 a plate dinners or balls) unless we are in a profession that requires such activities and even then our attendance is subsidized by our employer.

~ Vehicles: we probably have two vehicles unless we live in an area where it is too expensive to have a car (like the inner city) then we might have one or have access to one. We or our neighbors might have three vehicles, one of which an older teenager will be allowed to drive. Only one vehicle will be less than 3 to 5 years old. We might still be paying the auto loan on it and won't buy another vehicle until the loan is paid off.

~ Gift giving: we are generous with our friends and family but not extravagant. We relish holidays which typically center on eating together. Our gatherings tend to be casual with others bringing a dish to share. We might have special items (china, linens) that we set out. Birthday parties are a highlight. If the party is at home we might hire one moderately priced entertainment such as a magician, clown, face painter, bounce house, etc. If the party is away from home it will be a venue designed just for that purpose such as Chuck E Cheese or similar themed location. Except for one big blow-out annual holiday (Christmas, Halloween) and birthdays we rarely give large planned parties during the year. Other get togethers are much more casual.

~ Financial safety net: we probably have access to medical insurance through our employer or are able to purchase some kind of policy privately although the private policy might not cover much. We may or may not have dental insurance. We tend to get our medical bills paid eventually. We probably have some kind of life insurance though. We maintain insurance on our vehicles and home, primarly because those are required by the lender. We probably don't have much insurance beyond those basic policies. We have some savings, usually an emergency fund, and/or use credit cards for emergencies. We have access to a variety of credit cards including store accounts and multiple Visas / MC / Amex. We have a decent credit rating. We have some retirement investments because the plan is offered through our employer although we might not be contributing the maximum allowed. We have dabbled in other investment vehicles but find it difficult to maintain a regular investment schedule. We have wills primarily to direct the care of our children should we die before they are grown. Our assets won't take much notice in probate court and our estate probably won't be subject to inheritance taxes. If our grown children inherit anything from us, they will appreciate the gift but it won't affect their lifestyle significantly. Our home is probably our largest single investment.

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"I've been rich and I've been poor but independently wealthy is where it is at."

To Me the Middle Class Is Actually Becoming the working Poor. -

They pay their bills , Work hard , Don't Have much savings , cause they are Always Hit with Bills and More bills and Have a Tough time Getting ahead.
They live in 1200- 2000 SF homes, On Average.
They Can Afford most of Lifes Needs , Yet things Can Get Tricky Money wise...

I Think a Good TV Icon of My Idea Of Middle Class would Be Roseanne, King of Queens , Everybody Loves Raymond , The George lopez show.....

EXACTLY! I couldn't have explained it better

This is a fascinating discussion to me. I think Cookie2 has hit the nail pretty much on the head, with moderate variations according to different people's priorities. But I also think, if we use the same breakdown, that most of the people I know think they should be able todo the following, and believe these are bare-bones middle-class expectations:

~ Housing: a nice house, in a nice area; if it is in the suburbs something between 2000-3000 square feet. (Obvious adjustments made for those who live in big cities, etc., where an apartment might be a luxury.) Probably not any other house, like a vacation home.

~ Income: I'm going to skip this one because I think that the income/expectations is where a big disconnect has developed.

~ School: the kids go to the very good local public school or we scrimp to put them in a moderately priced private school. Can put them through a good university of their choice, with careful planning and savings and maybe some loans.

~ Entertainment: Can go out whenever choose, do take-out, whatever. Budget should not be a factor in eating decisions, whatsoever, except when it comes to deciding not do go to a really high-end restaurant. Small vacations (beach, mountains) should be easily accessible. Larger ones (Europe) might take some planning and saving. Definitely have passes to whatever (swim clubs, museums, etc.) Can buy everything organic and not meal plan or budget in any way, just pick up whatever they want at the store that day.

~Clothes: I'm going to add this one. Can shop casually in mall stores but not necessarily expensive designers; pays some heed to cost but unless a real and self-admitted shopaholic, shouldn't have to think more than twice about casual purchases of clothing (or books, hobby material, etc.)

~ Charity: Some sense of social responsibility and privilege, meaning charitable donations in some way, but I can't take a good guess how much. That's a less visible expectation.

~ Vehicles: Two reasonably nice vehicles, at least one new and the other not too old, but probably older than 3 years as Cookie2 said. The older one goes to the teenager when they hit 16.


~ Gift giving: we are generous with our friends and family but not extravagant. We relish holidays which typically center on eating together. Our gatherings tend to be casual with others bringing a dish to share. We might have special items (china, linens) that we set out. Birthday parties are a highlight. If the party is at home we might hire one moderately priced entertainment such as a magician, clown, face painter, bounce house, etc. If the party is away from home it will be a venue designed just for that purpose such as Chuck E Cheese or similar themed location. Except for one big blow-out annual holiday (Christmas, Halloween) and birthdays we rarely give large planned parties during the year. Other get togethers are much more casual. (Agree with this expectation for most people.)

~ Financial safety net: I agree with most of this except I think a lot of people expect to be able to make 10% retirement savings contributions or more.

This are just expectations I have observed, all from people who make well under the $150k I had mentioned as my idea of the start of upper middle class. So I wonder: Is there a major disconnect between what middle class can really do (which is to me what Cookie2 outlined--reasonable expectations) and what they think they should be able to do? Are these expectations, outlined above, really only what people of the upper middle class can do but everyone believes they should be able to? And thus a source of frustration or debt?

Yes, you have described the upper middle class lifestyle which is what most people aspire to.

I agree with cookie its an excelent discribtion. Though part of it is in who you ask. I grew up middle class to upper middle class yet was labled "rich". While my parents worked hard to earn what they have and had to make smart choices we did live in the most expensive neighborhood and that gave off the impression that my family had more then it did.
So to me I see middle class as being secure with your finances (Income, pay your bills, save a little, have a e-fund and a retirement)
I consider my family as lower middle class not down and out but struggling to build savings and pay off consumer debt

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Kimberly Proud Mommy to Bethany Rose April 2006 &

Organizer of the Coupon Clippers of Tacoma