I'd bet anything that some of the teachers on our board could tell us some stories about kids and disapline. I'd love to hear some of their thoughts on it.

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The mighty oak started out as a nut that held its ground.

That is it - the child isn't bad, the behavior is and the bad behavior WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. Parents are NOT supposed to be their child's friend - they are supposed to be the PARENT.

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Debbie

"Watch the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves." --Benjamin Franklin

I just wanted to add a thought, I saw a lot of people justifing taking out kids who can't behave properly in a resturaunt because "they have to learn somehwere" but we are all perfectly capable of teaching out child how to behave at home how they should behave in public. They should have the same respect at the kitchen table as they do at the applebee's table, granted at home there might be more walking around in your underwear but there should always be a level of respect for parental authority in a child's life, at home or in public.

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Mommy To Brody(3 years) Mason(20 months) Orin (3 Months)

"It's easy to pass judgement, it's more difficult and more meaningful to love someone" Big Love


"Cholesterol won't stick if you have the right attitude"

I think you all spend too much time judging others behavior rather than realizing that being too firm, too overbearing, and too harsh is not the absolute way to raise a child.

every child is different. I would never let my kid roam around a restaurant, or bother people that don't want to be bothered. But I think it's important to remember, that you showing your kid it's ok to call another kid a brat is not acceptable behavior either.

We need to live in a world of kindess, and understanding.

What ever happened to letting a kid be a kid. my DD is not going to learn how behave in an adult fashion overnight, just as she will not learn bad behavior overnight. You have made harsh assumptions about other people.

I think it's rather presumptious to assume that a kid is terrorizing people at Barnes and Noble by playing on toy that are set up for them in the children's section.

Self-esteem is a vital part of being a toddler, I can tell when I've hurt my DD's feelings and that is not ok. Just as it isn't ok for her to hit me, kick another kid, or take a kid's shovel.

Many of you are over inflating a simple situation where a kid is shaking around a few sugar packets as them being brats who their parents let them do whatever they want. Unsanitary? Believe me you have a lot more things to worry about back in the kitchen than on your table.

I don't feel the need to justify my parenting but some of the comments were aimed specifically at either my age group, or myself and parenting style which is why I have used myself as an example.

What is a lazy parent? one who expects their kid to behave at all costs and grabs them by the arm hauling them off the playground? Or one that lets their kid stand on the booth right next to them? it's all relative. I'm never more than 3 ft away from my toddler at all times, even at the playground. Don't get me wrong, if my dd is trying to take a toy or is being rough - I will pull her aside and let her know to play nice or redirect her.

Today some kid knocked my dd over while their parents were sitting over 50 ft away having lunch. I had to talk to the kids and tell them that they needed to be careful, and finally the mom ran across the playground shouting at her children. This, I understand, is frusterating. This is a parent not paying attention - however, I can't judge that parent or judge the children. However, I can honestly say, I've never been that parent in the situation.

I personally feel that my child has a great self esteem, I know when she's maxxed out an it's time to go, and she's friendly/outgoing to other people. So what if she's eating her salsa with a spoon? Kids are capable of following directions but cannot put a 3 step process together until they are at least 3. So unless I expect to beat out of my kid all her liveliness - I will enforce what I find important...and be consistent about those things.

Many of us really are in agreement about parenting. You need to be involved, but just what you punish your child for is the difference.

don't sweat the small stuff. and don't be so judgemental!

I have rarely engaged in debate where the opposite player so cavalierly and conveniently ignores every logical, salient point of the argument to focus exclusively on the most meaningless. This has been quite the experience.

To that end, I'll merely respond as thus…

Standing in judgment of each other and their behavior is essential in a free society. If we do not hold each other responsible for enforcement of norms and mores, we risk the dissolution of a society into anarchy.

Don't ever -- EVER -- tell me not to be judgmental. It exposes you as a hypocrite and shows me that you place the appeasement of self above the greater good of the whole. And THAT, ironically, is where the whole base of the subject matter of this entire thread arose -- selfishness.

Oh, and by the way -- I ate out nearly every meal last weekend. And in every restaurant, from IHOP to Red Robin to George's down the street, the children present were well behaved. Without the parents having to beat them silly in public. Whodathunkit?

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The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
-- H. L. Mencken

All discussions seem to end this way. Judgment is not something that is deserved or necessary.

You cannot act like I offended you when you so blatantly insinuated that I am inexperienced, have bad/lazy parenting, and used every form of manipulative means to downgrade my opinions because they do not conform to yours.

As I've always maintained, Children are capable of behaving. However, you cannot expect your kid, or any others, to do this all the time. Rules, consistency, of course this is all-important. Rules are a vital part of self-esteem. But being a strict parent is the ends all to that problem, teaching in a way that preserves their self-esteem is important. I've seen my friends grow up with strict parents, and they were not any better off down the line.

In a situation that appears to be a safe establishment (Children's section of the bookstore, Family restaurant, or kids museum), Kids and parents alike should feel comfortable attending without being called a tyrant or treated like a disease.

I am not too firm, overbearing or harsh as a parent 24/7. I do not expect my ds to be well behaved at all times. I love watching my ds act like a crazy and silly 4yr old. However when we are in a restaurant, library, someone's home etc he is expected to behave, not run around like nut and to use an indoor voice (meaning not screaming and yelling). I also do not think it's ok for him to call another kid a brat or say they are bad. I've told him before that the child is not a brat or bad but they are behaving badly. He's seen parents screaming at their kids or grabbing them abruptly by the arm and shoving them while we were out and about. He always asks me why their mommy is being so mean to them. I'm sure those children will end up treating other kids on the playground, in school or at the park the same way. They learn from how they are being treated.

We went to breakfast Sunday morning and were waiting in line to be seated. I watched as this older woman got up from a table, she was sitting with what looked like her dd and two grandkids, and walked up to the hostess stand and started looking around for something. The girl asked what she needed and she was complaining that they only got one crayon and that it was brown and her granddaughter didn't want brown. Uh, I know what I would have liked to tell her but the hostess just said for some reason all we have is brown right now and the woman stormed off back to her booth. So I'm standing there watching the kids play with the sugar pkgs, salt shaker etc. I don't know why but it still amazes me what parents will do just to refrain from a time out or telling their kid no. It's not that hard to keep something small in your purse (those kids were well out of the need for a diaper bag) for times like these. You know you will be waiting or awhile and you're kids can't wait forever to eat breakfast. We waited over 40min once we sat down and you wouldn't know we had a 4yr old sitting with us. We did have to tell him a couple times that he would go to the car if acted up, we could tell he was starting to get ansy.

For the most part children are behaving more out of control than ever before because the parents are not strict enough, they are not firm enough and don't like to punish in fear their child will not like them. (that and the fact that we do take our children everywhere now. My parents had one car when we were growing up and we went to the store maybe twice a month, to the mall maybe once a month and never out to eat, when we had money we would go to a specific place to get specific things, not just to buy us things just because we asked.) This just drives me crazy. Kids crave boundaries, they want and need for us to set limits and tell them no. They have plenty of friends, they need a parent.

I understand that book stores have children's sections with toys and a children's museum is just for them but I guess I'm the odd one that still will not allow my ds to scream and yell and carry on like he's outside at the park when we are in an indoor place.

No, you're not the odd one. I think most people on here are agreeing that even though children aren't perfect, it we don't set our standards high, they'll grow up to be undisciplined adults. I, too, would never let my children behave badly or talk loudly even in the children's section of the library, or the children's section of the bookstore, or in our local children's museum. I took a 3yr old and 1 yr old to the library at least 3X per wk., and our children's museum at least 1X per month, and they never behaved like that...or at least if they did there were consequences.

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I totally agree. I have a 3 year old and 18 month old and some times they do act up, but they are little and still learning you can't expect them to be perfectly behavied at all times. I find that you have to take your kids out regularly so they can practice how to behave. We go to church regularly, so they are learning how to behave there. If we happen to miss a week they kinda forget and we have to remind them how to act. This is the same for any place that you go. You can't keep your kids at home until they are 5 and then expect them to know how to act in public. This is something they have to learn by practicing

Some kids are just different anyways. My dd#2 is a screamer and the older one isn't. You can't expect kids to all act the same. You can't compare my kids to someone elses kids you have a different home life and upbringing.

I live in Utah. We are pretty much a kids friendly state.

When we went to Cracker Barrel last weekend we had 3 other adults from surrounding tables come to us and thank us for having such well mannered and well behaved kids. One lady even told me she never realised there were kids at the table until they started to leave. I take pride in this... but it's not always the case. I try my best though with a 20 month old, and 28 month old and a 4 yr old.

Other times I tell dh THIS is why people write articles like that as I try unmercifully to get my ds out of the store before the bad looks start.

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