what is so wrong with socialism?

bananabellesmom · **what is so wrong with socialism?**

definition of socialism:

–noun 1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles

I hear people talking as this election is coming up, about how this or that is too much socialism?

so why do you think it is so bad?

I have lived in a socialized country, and dh has lived in 3. Some of these contries have the highest quality of life/living standards

what is your take??

Pianolady · 10-06-2008, 10:10 AM

1. You are giving up choice, as government takeover always means consolidation of services (such as health care), and higher prices. If there is no competition (capitalism), there is no price competition.

2. You will be taxed to pay for these new programs, so you get to pay more for them twice!

3. Government control = one less freedom you have, we're voting our freedom away bit by bit when voting for socialist programs. Unfortunately, I'm afraid people will look for the "quick fix" and vote for these things without thinking about the long-term consequences.

In a nutshell, socialism is as much an economic concept as a social concept. I'm a huge supporter of less government, and do feel the current push towards a socialist economy will only bring higher taxes, more business failures, less freedom and/or choice, and higher unemployment. It's a good way to bring everyone down to a level of being equally poor. Our country is full of entrepreneurial gusto that has supported our economy, socialism will kill it.

Bucsnpats · 10-06-2008, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pianolady

1. You are giving up choice, as government takeover always means consolidation of services (such as health care), and higher prices. If there is no competition (capitalism), there is no price competition.

2. You will be taxed to pay for these new programs, so you get to pay more for them twice!

3. Government control = one less freedom you have, we're voting our freedom away bit by bit when voting for socialist programs. Unfortunately, I'm afraid people will look for the "quick fix" and vote for these things without thinking about the long-term consequences.

In a nutshell, socialism is as much an economic concept as a social concept. I'm a huge supporter of less government, and do feel the current push towards a socialist economy will only bring higher taxes, more business failures, less freedom and/or choice, and higher unemployment. It's a good way to bring everyone down to a level of being equally poor. Our country is full of entrepreneurial gusto that has supported our economy, socialism will kill it.

WELL SAID!!

MelodyRose · 10-06-2008, 10:18 AM

Everyone having a share in all the community assets sounds good, until the people in charge decide to abuse the system and everyone's share begins to disappear. Even tho the idea is everyone sharing control, you're still going to have leaders that are more powerful than others, and it seems that this would be a very easy system to manipulate if you're the person in charge.

PianoLady, you make some very good points. Do you feel like the Mortgage Bailout plan is sort of a socialist step? I feel uneasy about giving the gov't that much control over the economy and financial sector.

Pianolady · 10-06-2008, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelodyRose

PianoLady, you make some very good points. Do you feel like the Mortgage Bailout plan is sort of a socialist step? I feel uneasy about giving the gov't that much control over the economy and financial sector.

Yes, and if it hadn't been an election year, it never would have happened. Unfortunately, it was announced to the world by our press and some politicians that our country would crumble if not passed (which is not true), so Congress got trapped into passing the bill, and the American people started believing the propaganda they were being fed by the press. It was nothing more than a brilliant political-election-year manipulation with no true interest in what's best for our country imo.

The more the government tries to fix this, the worse our economy gets. They just need to sit back and let capitalism go through its cycle, and let things be. But that won't happen, as people are looking to the government to serve the individual's needs, and fix everybody's problems. This is not, and should not be the role of government. It's a dangerous path to start going down.

bananabellesmom · 10-06-2008, 10:34 AM

I do too believe that the bailout is leaning towards socialism

pianolady, well said

whenever socailism is brought up, it usually leans towards healthcare, in a way, the US has a form of socialised health system. The rich, will always be rich and be able to afford. Then there is the people who fall under a certain income line ( NOT saying that these are not necessary, etc ) who get help, YET the middle class who is above that income level seems to get kicked where it hurts, with either no health care, care that does not cover, or way high expenses to have that heath care....

taxes are higher in socialised countries, but in some cases, I don't think it is much higher than it is here. In the UK, VAT is I think 18%, up front.... here we have very hidden taxes, state taxes, fed taxes, in some cases city taxes, even county tax.

bonnotsm9 · 10-06-2008, 10:44 AM

Socialism because it involves government ownership of many of the industries that are currently in the free market now- healthcare, transportation, banking. Imo, socialism ruins economies.

The government has shown itself over and over again to be unable to effectively manage anything in the economic sector. Look at Social Security- that's a socialist program. How well have they managed it? And Medicare? Along with Social Security, they have been concerns for years and years that it's going bankrupt. It was government meddling in the mortgage industry that led to Fannie and Freddie's failure and the current bailout. Government does not manage industry in a way that leads to prosperity. If we become a socialist country, our standard of living will decline.

But most importantly, to me at least, is that socialism always brings a huge loss of freedom. For instance, if the government is paying for your healthcare, then society has the right to tell you how to live. After all, they are paying for your healthcare, so you'd better make choices that are "healthy." And if government is subsidizing the mortgage industry, who's to say that we don't start telling people what size house they can have and where they can live? After all the government is paying for it?

bananabellesmom · 10-06-2008, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonnotsm9

Socialism because it involves government ownership of many of the industries that are currently in the free market now- healthcare, transportation, banking. Imo, socialism ruins economies.

The government has shown itself over and over again to be unable to effectively manage anything in the economic sector. Look at Social Security- that's a socialist program. How well have they managed it? And Medicare? Along with Social Security, they have been concerns for years and years that it's going bankrupt. It was government meddling in the mortgage industry that led to Fannie and Freddie's failure and the current bailout. Government does not manage industry in a way that leads to prosperity. If we become a socialist country, our standard of living will decline.

But most importantly, to me at least, is that socialism always brings a huge loss of freedom. For instance, if the government is paying for your healthcare, then society has the right to tell you how to live. After all, they are paying for your healthcare, so you'd better make choices that are "healthy." And if government is subsidizing the mortgage industry, who's to say that we don't start telling people what size house they can have and where they can live? After all the government is paying for it?

very well articulated!

Pianolady · 10-06-2008, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonnotsm9

Socialism because it involves government ownership of many of the industries that are currently in the free market now- healthcare, transportation, banking. Imo, socialism ruins economies.

The government has shown itself over and over again to be unable to effectively manage anything in the economic sector. Look at Social Security- that's a socialist program. How well have they managed it? And Medicare? Along with Social Security, they have been concerns for years and years that it's going bankrupt. It was government meddling in the mortgage industry that led to Fannie and Freddie's failure and the current bailout. Government does not manage industry in a way that leads to prosperity. If we become a socialist country, our standard of living will decline.

But most importantly, to me at least, is that socialism always brings a huge loss of freedom. For instance, if the government is paying for your healthcare, then society has the right to tell you how to live. After all, they are paying for your healthcare, so you'd better make choices that are "healthy." And if government is subsidizing the mortgage industry, who's to say that we don't start telling people what size house they can have and where they can live? After all the government is paying for it?

aliadam · 10-06-2008, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonnotsm9

Socialism because it involves government ownership of many of the industries that are currently in the free market now- healthcare, transportation, banking. Imo, socialism ruins economies.

The government has shown itself over and over again to be unable to effectively manage anything in the economic sector. Look at Social Security- that's a socialist program. How well have they managed it? And Medicare? Along with Social Security, they have been concerns for years and years that it's going bankrupt. It was government meddling in the mortgage industry that led to Fannie and Freddie's failure and the current bailout. Government does not manage industry in a way that leads to prosperity. If we become a socialist country, our standard of living will decline.

But most importantly, to me at least, is that socialism always brings a huge loss of freedom. For instance, if the government is paying for your healthcare, then society has the right to tell you how to live. After all, they are paying for your healthcare, so you'd better make choices that are "healthy." And if government is subsidizing the mortgage industry, who's to say that we don't start telling people what size house they can have and where they can live? After all the government is paying for it?

Great reply!!!

My other concern is that socialism kills the competitive nature in many people. Our society is currently founded on the principal that if you make wise choices and work hard that you can succeed. But when the government starts saying if you work hard and make wise choices we will take your money to give to people who don't work as hard and who don't make wise choices, then the will to try hard can be greatly decreased. I read an article once about one of the scandinavian countries and how a huge number of their citizens were on government assistance because they could live as well like that as they could if they worked. It was becoming a huge problem because no one wanted to work anymore!!! Everyone just wanted the government to take care of them. I guess I just don't know any socialist society where people live as well as we do. If there is, why are they swarmed with immigrants like we are?